Why You Gotta Lie, Tell Me Why

By Spencer Ackerman

Carl Levin on "time horizons":

“President Bush is now apparently willing to accept what he repeatedly has told a majority in both houses of Congress was unacceptable regarding Iraq: a commitment to transition U.S. forces from combat to a limited ‘overwatch’ role, focused on training and counterterrorism operations, and a ‘time horizon’ for completing this transition. Today’s statement contrasts with the administration’s previous absolute rejection of Congressional efforts to adopt even a non-binding goal for transition of most of our troops from Iraq, accompanied by a shift of mission, to the same missions identified by the President today.

“The President’s effort to distinguish between a ‘time horizon’ and a ‘time table’ to accomplish that goal falls flat.”

Comments

(29)

http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/

Hentoff Disillusioned

Fri, Jul 18, 2008 at 8:15:10 pm PDT

Of all the Village Voice socialists, Nat Hentoff has always seemed the most intellectually honest, and the most willing to critically examine the received leftist wisdom. And now he’s disillusioned about Barack Obama.

During my more than 60 years of covering national politics, I have never seen a candidate’s principles and character so effectively tarnished — after so extraordinarily inspiring a start — as Barack Obama’s. He has come to resemble another mellifluous orator I came to know in Boston during my first time reporting on a campaign — James Michael Curley, the skilful prestidigitator whom Spencer Tracy masterfully played in the movie “The Last Hurrah.” Obama’s deflation has not been due to ruthless opposition research by John McCain’s team but by the “change” candidate himself. Like millions of Americans, I, for a time, was buoyed by not only the real-time prospect of our first black president but much more by the likelihood that Obama would pierce the dense hypocrisy and insatiable power-grabbing of current American politics.

Also, as a former teacher of constitutional law, Obama gave me “hope I could believe in” that he would rescue the Constitution’s separation of powers, resuscitate the Bill of Rights and begin to restore our reputation around the world as a truly law-abiding nation.

Savoring the high expectations he had secured among so many Americans, Obama has decided he can also come closer to securing the Oval Office by softening his starlight enough to change some of his principles toward the calming center of our stormy political waters.

In a defense by Dan Gerstein, a New York political consultant — echoing what you’ll be hearing more of from Obama’s campaign operatives — the gossamer script goes: “He is trying to broaden his appeal to a larger electorate and to be true to this postpartisan, unifying message that he’s been campaigning on.” But instead of the ennobling clarion trombones of CHANGE we have been promised, this “adjusting” of one’s principles has long been the common juggling of our common politicians.

Accordingly, as his presidential campaign gathered such momentum, Obama, with justifiable pride, pointed to the resounding fact that most of the bountiful funds he was raising came from small donors, “the people,” not the sort of supporters who move above us in private jet planes.

But after abandoning his pledge to abide by public financing, this apostle of cleansing the political culture is now going after the high rollers. As the July 3 New York Times reported, “Last week, the Obama campaign collected about $5 million at an event featuring celebrities in Los Angeles. The evening began with a dinner at the Dorothy Chandler Pavilion for more than 200 people who had contributed $28,500 per couple, or raised $50,000.” Then there is the current furor among a rising number of Obama contributors with wallets far below the $50,000-a-pop crowd about his change on the “compromise” FISA Amendments Act of 2008 that passed the House and Senate, and has been signed by the grateful president.

He’s still wrong about a lot of things, but at least he isn’t wearing partisan blinders.

Hi Again, Dummy!

Care to read the topic of the thread and comment on that subject before you once again start making asinine comments to steer the thread off topic? You pulled this same shit yesterday and then accused everyone else of doing it. What is your view of the topic of the thread?
Let's hear it, dip shit, you opened up the thread.

By othelloJuly 19, 2008 - 11:52am

I can't believe the Bush administration thinks they are fooling anyone but the 20%ers. "Time horizon"? Give me a break. Bush flip-flopped and so did McCain. They seem to be adopting a lot of Obama's policies lately. They just needed someone competent to show them the way.

Those of you suffering from Bush Derangement Syndrome

only really have one subject, on all your threads. Your hatred of Bush, and all things Bush.

Hey asshole's

Bush has always said, that when conditions where right, on the ground, then the next phase would start. Keep up.

We have won. Now on to phase two.

And what makes the conditions NOW the "right" ones?

Violence is actually increasing.

The only thing that's really changed is that Cowboy-hat Oathbreaker has realized how little time he and the g0p have left in power, so he wants to try and leave SOME sort of positive note in his legacy. As if making preparations to end a war HE started can be considered a "positive note"...

Oathbreaker has said all along that he was going to leave solving all the problems he created to whoever the next President was. All he's doing by accepting what al-Maliki and Obama have proposed is ensuring that's exactly what will happen.

Not even Nixon or Grant was as incompetent a President as Cowboy-hat Oathbreaker.

If all else fails, immortality can always be assured by spectacular error. ~~~John Kenneth Galbraith

hatemoron, tsk, tsk, tsk.

If we "won" already, we should have been out of Iraq. LOL - that's funny because Monkey Boy STILL doesn't know what Phase ONE is all about, never mind having a plan for Phase Two!

“God has a sense of humor. If you don't believe me, tomorrow go to Wal-Mart and just look at people.” Carlos Mencia

The question the troll-monkeys keep refusing to answer

...is "how does one win an occupation?". Probably because they don't HAVE an answer, other than to parrot the drug addict's Official Talking Points.

How DO they manage to pack all those troll-monkeys onto the short bus every day?

If all else fails, immortality can always be assured by spectacular error. ~~~John Kenneth Galbraith

I know - ask them what "victory" means and

watch their heads spin faster than Linda Blair's!

Lot's of short buses, non, MANY short buses - a whole fucking caravan!

“God has a sense of humor. If you don't believe me, tomorrow go to Wal-Mart and just look at people.” Carlos Mencia

By Pookie2112July 21, 2008 - 5:25pm

Did you see the board this weekend?

This right wing troll abubenadom or something like that was on. I think it's another one of hateys but I'm not sure. I'm sure about several of his but I haven't seen enough of that one.

Anyway here is the funny part. He starts listing one post at a time the Keating 5 members. He would post #1 and list one of the members. Then an hour later he would do the next.

At number three I asked him what he was doing because we all know it was 4 dems and one reperve who happens to be McCain. I said party doesn't matter to us. We're not sycophants like the right wingers are. We'll call out corruption when we see it.

So with each post so far he puts a line below the name the words "Fair and Balanced". After my response he gives the fourth name and says "Fair and Balanced fu" like he's chastising me even though I acknowledged there were four dems.

And that was his last post. He stopped at 4 and never mentioned McCain in his little presentation.

I guess that is "fair and balanced" to a right winger.

I guess that is "fair and balanced" to a right winger.

No, I didn't check the board this weekend but isn't that always the case, though? Especially with that moron, hateallthetime? Repugs have that cherry-picking thing down to a science. The sad part is is that when we rightfully acknowledge that the democratic leadership sucks, or rightfully demand that a corrupt dem say "bye-bye", they glaze over it and accuse us of hypocrisy, completely ignoring the fact that while they may make pathetic excuses for the Repugs, we call our elected officials on it.

It's just another tactic they use in their weak attempts at goading us into one of their infernal and nonsensical pissing matches. When they see they're losing the match, they bring up the distraction tactic. And they wonder why we laugh at them and rightfully call them what they are, uneducated hypocrites.

“God has a sense of humor. If you don't believe me, tomorrow go to Wal-Mart and just look at people.” Carlos Mencia

Good for al-Maliki.

The Iraqi PM agrees with Obama's plan for troop withdrawal. Our troops should be out of Iraq 16 months after Barack takes office next January.

George W. & George H.W. Bush - Living proof that the dumbshit doesn't fall far from the dumbass.

By Guy FawkesJuly 19, 2008 - 1:53pm

Ever since Bush and McCain started parroting Obama things have started to look better.

Remember when Bush said a time table would be bad? Now he has one but he cloaks it with another name: "Time horizon".

LOL! bush is such a dumb ass.

The Iraqi's are so relieved that bungler is leaving office soon

That is a sentiment the Iraqis and US citizens share.

Iraqi Prime Minister Backs Obama Troop Exit Plan
Reuters | July 19, 2008 09:33 AM

Iraqi Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki told a German magazine he supported prospective U.S. Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama's proposal that U.S. troops should leave Iraq within 16 months.

In an interview with Der Spiegel released on Saturday, Maliki said he wanted U.S. troops to withdraw from Iraq as soon as possible.

"U.S. presidential candidate Barack Obama talks about 16 months. That, we think, would be the right timeframe for a withdrawal, with the possibility of slight changes."

It is the first time he has backed the withdrawal timetable put forward by Obama.

Dr. Susan Rice, senior national security advisor to the Obama Campaign, issued this statement in response to al-Maliki's declaration of support:

Senator Obama welcomes Prime Minister Maliki's support for a 16 month timeline for the redeployment of U.S combat brigades. This presents an important opportunity to transition to Iraqi responsibility, while restoring our military and increasing our commitment to finish the fight in Afghanistan.

The Only Reason ...

... the dumb ass Bush wants to start a "time horizon" to get troops out of Iraq is because he has a shortage of troops in Afghanistan, where he abandoned the mission and lied 934 times to get us entangled in Iraq.

This fu bush3 moron ( hatey the Dummy ) has got no game! What a classless piece of shit! I gave him an indelible dope slap over on another thread. I blasted his stupid argument out of the water and all he could do was try to attack my screen name since his argument fell apart. The RNC is in BIG trouble if clowns like him are all they can throw at us!

By othelloJuly 19, 2008 - 2:33pm

hatey is the latest member of CHAD

Chicken Hawks Against the Draft

Nice bitch slap by the way! The 20%ers are pretty dumb. As more people drop their support of the republicans, those left find themselves increasingly characterized by these clowns. That accelerates the defection.

By othelloJuly 19, 2008 - 2:33pm

The funny thing is that the "surge" is supposedly over yet the plans for troop withdrawal wil leave more troops than there were before the "surge".

That's for now. Maliki is happy to work with Obama to get the troops out. Bush and McCain are trying to copy Obama's strategy while pretending not to.

The RepubliCANTs have been in trouble since the '06 election

The only thing that woke them up to how deep a hole they'd dug for themselves was realizing that the general election for President was going to be between McCain and Obama. If Billary had managed to get the nomination, they knew they had a chance at winning, which is why the drug addict squawked for all his minions in open-primary states to run out and vote for her. But with Obama at the top of the bill, they've got less chance than a snowball in a blast furnace, and they've finally realized it.

By all the evidence, they're willing to throw McCain under the bus in a mad dash to beat the crowd out of the door and take as much money with them as they can stuff in their pockets, before the doors get slammed shut and the true reckoning begins. They do NOT want to be around when the piper demands to be paid.

I'm waiting with just a bit of fear and trembling to see what happens when Cowboy-hat Oathbreaker shows up at the opening ceremonies for the Beijing games. That would be a PRIME opportunity for an assassination attempt, and history is packed full of examples of tyrants becoming saints when they're martyred. If someone manages to whack him at the Olympics, the g0p just MIGHT manage to get McCain elected by pulling out the "patriotism and national unity in our our of mourning" card. Kooky conspiracy theory? Maybe...but it's still a possibility, and it's one that should be prepared for, on the premise of "that which is prepared for never occurs."

Things to make you go "hmmm....."

If all else fails, immortality can always be assured by spectacular error. ~~~John Kenneth Galbraith

Spiegel changes quote

posted at 12:15 pm on July 19, 2008 by Allahpundit

Here’s the exchange from Spiegel’s English translation, duly hyped by Reuters as tacit evidence of Liberal Jesus’s foreign-policy sagacity.

SPIEGEL: Would you hazard a prediction as to when most of the US troops will finally leave Iraq?

Maliki: As soon as possible, as far as we’re concerned. US presidential candidate Barack Obama is right when he talks about 16 months. Assuming that positive developments continue, this is about the same time period that corresponds to our wishes.

The unasked follow-up question: How about the 14-month timetable that Obama wanted to set in January 2007 to start pulling troops out before those positive developments could occur? How keen does that look in hindsight? To repeat a point made yesterday, the only reason a timetable or “time horizon” is arguably a responsible strategy now is because it was properly rejected as being irresponsible then. Maliki hints at that in another part of the interview:

So far the Americans have had trouble agreeing to a concrete timetable for withdrawal, because they feel it would appear tantamount to an admission of defeat. But that isn’t the case at all. If we come to an agreement, it is not evidence of a defeat, but of a victory, of a severe blow we have inflicted on al-Qaida and the militias.

Exactly, which at least partly explains why Bush is more willing to compromise now on some sort of informal schedule. Compare Maliki’s justification for the timetable to Obama’s justification in his big Iraq speech. The pacification of the country is almost incidental, something to congratulate Petraeus on and then quickly move past. To the extent conditions in Iraq seem to affect his rationale at all, he offers this: “In the 18 months since the surge began, as I warned at the outset – Iraq’s leaders have not made the political progress that was the purpose of the surge. They have not invested tens of billions of dollars in oil revenues to rebuild their country. They have not resolved their differences or shaped a new political compact.” I.e. it didn’t work, so let’s get out. Back to Maliki for a rebuttal:

SPIEGEL: In your opinion, which factor has contributed most to bringing calm to the situation in the country?

Maliki: There are many factors, but I see them in the following order. First, there is the political rapprochement we have managed to achieve in central Iraq. This has enabled us, above all, to pull the plug on al-Qaida. Second, there is the progress being made by our security forces. Third, there is the deep sense of abhorrence with which the population has reacted to the atrocities of al-Qaida and the militias. Finally, of course, there is the economic recovery.

He’s exaggerating the extent of the reconciliation, but not entirely.

One more quote from the interview which I dare say won’t be making it into the inevitable Team Barry press release. The fact that Maliki thinks the war was good for Iraqis doesn’t mean it was good for America, needless to say, but Obama fans eager to exploit the timetable bit may want to mull this before baptizing his judgments with Absolute Moral Authority:

SPIEGEL: Mr. Prime Minister, the war and its consequences have cost more than 100,000 lives and caused great suffering in your country. Saddam Hussein and his regime are now part of the past. Was all of this worth the price?

Maliki: The casualties have been and continue to be enormous. But anyone who was familiar with the dictator’s nature and his intentions knows what could have been in store for us instead of this war. Saddam waged wars against Iran and Kuwait, and against Iraqis in the north and south of his own country, wars in which hundreds of thousands died. And he was capable of instigating even more wars. Yes, the casualties are great, but I see our struggle as an enormous effort to avoid other such wars in the future.

For context, here’s Petraeus on MSNBC yesterday afternoon (before the Spiegel interview was published) responding to reports that Maliki wants a timetable. He fudges a bit with the “time horizon” terminology, but note well the point about domestic politics and assertions of sovereignty. Another “positive development.” Exit question: What do we do now with that NYT piece from the other day about Iraqis who love Obama for bringing Hope but pray that the U.S. security presence doesn’t Change?

Update: Spend some time with this AP story about U.S. troops — who would have been reduced to a small Baker/Hamilton token force by now if Obama had had his way last year — helping Iraqi villagers rebuild after purging Al Qaeda. Quote: “It reveals how drastically American troops have shifted their focus from combat to helping Iraqis build on a newfound, if fragile, peace. And it reflects a continuing concern among U.S. commanders that the security gains could slip.” Not just U.S. commanders either, per the NYT piece.

Update: A commenter notes that Spiegel has rewritten the translation of the exchange about withdrawal to read as follows. There’s nothing in the article calling attention to the change; they’re trying to put one over on their readers, it seems.

SPIEGEL: Would you hazard a prediction as to when most of the US troops will finally leave Iraq?

Maliki: As soon as possible, as far as we’re concerned. U.S. presidential candidate Barack Obama talks about 16 months. That, we think, would be the right timeframe for a withdrawal, with the possibility of slight changes.

They’ve dropped the contingency about positive developments continuing, although it’s still implied by the part about potentially changing the plan. Did Maliki contact Spiegel and ask them to drop that part so that the quote would sound more assertive back home? Hard to believe the original translation would have been so off as to include a bit about “positive developments” that he never said.

http://hotair.com/archives/2008/07/19/maliki-obamas-16-month-timetable-s...

Hi Again, Dummy!

There isn't an original thought in your shrunken head, is there, you Parrot? ( rhetorical question )

Bye, Dummy!

You posted that before. That

You posted that before. That makes it SPAM.

"Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed." Dwight Eisenhower

You've posted that same cartoon at least

10 times. So, tell me, why don't you report yourself to SAM? for SPAM. Idiot.

Look carefully. I've never

Look carefully. I've never posted the same one twice.

"Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed." Dwight Eisenhower

They all look alike to him

...but it's all he can comprehend, since the rest of us use WORDS.

If all else fails, immortality can always be assured by spectacular error. ~~~John Kenneth Galbraith

Hi Again, Dummy!

Actually, that is the first time she posted that particular picture. It's not a cartoon, you moron, it's an advertisement. At least it's not a cartoon in the same sense that you have a big cartoon face. Like I said before; Krauthammer may be paralyzed from the neck down, but you are paralyzed from the neck UP!
Oh, I almost forgot;
Bye, Dummy!

I'm glad that the Iraqi PM agrees with Barack.

Maliki & Obama both think that the US should be out of Iraq 16 months after Obama takes office.

George W. & George H.W. Bush - Living proof that the dumbshit doesn't fall far from the dumbass.

Can you people read, or do just like hearing your fingers type?

The unasked follow-up question: How about the 14-month timetable that Obama wanted to set in January 2007 to start pulling troops out before those positive developments could occur? How keen does that look in hindsight? To repeat a point made yesterday, the only reason a timetable or “time horizon” is arguably a responsible strategy now is because it was properly rejected as being irresponsible then. Maliki hints at that in another part of the interview:

So far the Americans have had trouble agreeing to a concrete timetable for withdrawal, because they feel it would appear tantamount to an admission of defeat. But that isn’t the case at all. If we come to an agreement, it is not evidence of a defeat, but of a victory, of a severe blow we have inflicted on al-Qaida and the militias.

Exactly, which at least partly explains why Bush is more willing to compromise now on some sort of informal schedule. Compare Maliki’s justification for the timetable to Obama’s justification in his big Iraq speech. The pacification of the country is almost incidental, something to congratulate Petraeus on and then quickly move past. To the extent conditions in Iraq seem to affect his rationale at all, he offers this: “In the 18 months since the surge began, as I warned at the outset –

By fu bush3July 19, 2008 - 4:00pm

You couldn't even come up with that simplistic bit of nonsense on your own? You're pathetic.

More Hot Air

How's that political reconciliation working out in Iraq ..

hatemoron? I mean, that WAS the reasoning behind the "surge" ...

“God has a sense of humor. If you don't believe me, tomorrow go to Wal-Mart and just look at people.” Carlos Mencia

Comments

(29)