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MEMO TO BARACK: AS FAR AS SAME-SEX MARRIAGES, SILENCE IS GOLDEN

By Lionel

Barry, don’t say a word. Not a word. I know, I know. The California Supreme Court struck a blow against homophobic intolerance in a decision that trumpets open-mindedness, clear thinking, progressive ideology. Yeah, yeah. I know. Look, the decision in validating same sex marriage is the quintessence of clarity: the same limpid arguments that were used to overrule anti-miscegenation laws forty years ago are applicable and, more importantly, alive and well today. What a perfect analogue to Loving. It makes complete sense. And better yet, Scalia, by his own word and “unique” ideology, eschewing the notion of the Constitution being a living, protean, malleable document, should say nothing about the decision because the Constitution as he sees it likewise says nothing for or against . . . anything. It’s not dead. It’s on life support. You know, state’s rights. Tenth Amendment. Yada yada yada. And you, B.O., a con law prof at heart, I know you’re just itching to applaud and herald this triumph. This exquisitely obvious decision. But you can’t. Not a word. Let it go. You’ve just calmed the bitter masses who harp on your middle name, Michelle’s moment of pride and perseverate over that flag lapel pin nonsense. (By the by, the next time the lapel issue is brought up, have a flag pin wearer look at where his sartorial Old Glory was made. China.)

I know. At long last, we, the sentient and compassionate wing of the human race, can celebrate a judicial decision that makes sense, that grants, that’s right, grants protections. We’re so used to limitations of rights, strictures, juridical “not so fast’s.” Think of it. There seem to be no more Browns. No more Roes. Just judicial straightjackets.

Until now. OK, it’s only a state supreme court. But it’s not just any state. OK, maybe it is , but still. We can all rejoice, but not you, B.O. Don’t even hint at happy. Just respect the law, bow to precedent, give a wave to res judicata. Acknowledge stare decisis, remind them all how smart you are and move on. Not a word more.

I know, it’ll kill you. You, the first African-American President, er, candidate, whose parents would have been exposed to criminal, as in felony, liability just 40 years ago, will be tempted to say something profound, but you can’t. You’ll want to remind folks that just as we got over interracial marriages, we’ll get over intragender ones. But not a word on the subject. Got it?

Why?

Because lest you forget, this country is still awash in inter alia a subterranean racism. We’re infected by misogyny and pocked by homophobia. This great land of ours -- for the significant most part -- can’t stomach the idea of gay marriage. Why? I haven’t a clue. It’s that meanness. That determination not to change, not to embrace. To refuse to accept. To hell with alternative anything. It’s section one of the conservative playbook. You’ll hear folks claim that it’s the term “marriage” that bothers them. Go ahead; give same-sex partnerships all attendant rights and privileges, just don’t call it marriage. Civil unions, domestic partnerships, fine. But not the M-word. It’s a last ditch attempt at saying no. It’s digging your heels in. They see this as a concession; it’s a reluctant, obstinate refusal to be egalitarian and fair. It’s an anti-gay posture that speaks to tradition and normalcy. Well, there was a time when interracial marriages weren’t the norm and certainly not traditional. Hear that, DeNiro? But somehow we got over it and threw in the towel. How magnanimous of us to allow blacks and whites face the perils of skyrocketing divorce rates like the rest of us.

These folks argue that this gay marriage business is against nature, the Bible and all that’s right. They’ll remind you of that pathetic “Adam and Steve” joke. They see marriage as being about procreation, though they’ll not prohibit old and infertile men and women from marrying or people who just can’t have kids. They don’t seem to mind the inconsistencies and untenability of their argument(s).

Sad when you think of it. Nobody in this country really cares about same-sex marriage, save same-sex marriage (potential) spouses and (small in proportion) equal rights hierophants like me. Like flag burning, the only moments of concern center around the discussion of its legality. Who cares that there hasn’t been a flag burning in decades. (It’s real big in Iraq, though.) It’s irrelevant to most people, yet to a very loud and, I feel, de minimis group, it’s all they claim they can think of. How dare anybody imagine they can encroach upon that which has been heretofore established via convention and practice solely a heterosexual instrument!

So, Senator O, please. Just tip your hat to the process, hug your wife and kids, make a veiled reference to the celebration of love lest your LGBT -- or is it GLBT -- (sounds like a sandwich at the Carnegie) tolerance be misconstrued by a persnickety electorate who’s still trying to get over Reverend Wright. And don’t think we’re talking about counterfeit conservative Republican-types. Oh, no. A lot of folks who claim to possess progressive and liberal bona fides secretly harbor a resentment against gay folks.

See, a slew of folks think that the liberal or progressive or lefty platform in addition to wanting to hike taxes, dissolve our military and negotiate with terrorists stands for flag-burning and sodomy. They feel that somehow Dems want to deconstruct family values -- whatever the hell that means. They’re watching you to, Barack, see how you’ll react.

Remember, not a peep.

Comments

(132)

Ya know....

As a heterosectual, I really don't give a rat's ass if gay people get married or not.

[Of course skeeter will be along to tell me why my children will be affected by the "homesexual agenda"]

Me neither.

Who cares?

Let them get married... LET THEM BE MISERABLE!

http://tinyurl.com/6o6t7x

Not a Peep Until...

...after the general election. Although Obama is theoretically against same-sex marriage, he can be brought to the table in time.

He WILL be asked

And his response, that he is for civil unions but not gay marriage on a national stage and let California do what it likes may fall short for some but will not be worse than McCain.

What does it really MEAN???

So that it is not unclear;
so that I not be misunderstood.

Lionel I am begging you; BEGGING YOU---> please address the reality of memes. The power of linguistical dissonance and language framing.

Everyone is so overwhelming passionate in discussing issues and the strength of rationality and such- THIS ELECTION WILL NOT BE RATIONAL.

The political issue at hand is not gay marriage- it is state's rights; an illustration of continuing Republican hypocrisy. State's rights has traditionally been a Republican cornerstone, now they want to attack the actual implementation of it? See what I have just done is an exercise in logic; yet ironically an exercise in futility, concurrently.

I listen to your show DAILY, and living in NYC, this is not an easy task as I am not always next to my computer. I listen because I scarcely hear anyone actually addressing the real nature of the election to come. It is going to be about framing of issues with manipulative language games- [click to see: Frank Luntz]
If anyone has time please watch [George Lakoff's lecture on framing]. While not the most effective strategist, he makes some valuable points about the opposition.
It goes beyond just the issue of gay marriage, or even homosexuality for that matter. In the world of Republican framing, gay marriage (or homosexuality) is code for immorality/disobedience of God, and that is code for evil- in the most Manichaeist manner possible. If gay marriage is to be discussed it is analogous to godless, demonic non-humans invading our homes at the behest of Satan, in a bloodlust rage in order to destroy Christian families (read: Americans- God's Favorites). Think I'm joking. Being hyperbolic?

Think again.

In the 2oth/21st century, religions for the most part have become concretized, calicified- into the place of "factual belief" (an oxymoron). Now religious texts are looked upon as facts, not lessons. Religions used to be merely myths used for teaching lesson of necessary social relevance. Parables. The myth of Shiva engaged in the Nataraja (loosely translated as "dance of destruction and rebirth"), is usually depicted as such: [click here]. While Shiva is swirling around, destroying the entire universe he/she is standing upon the dwarf Apasmara (the representation of Ignorance) who is completely entranced with the serpent shedding its skin, the serpent representing the fickleness of changing of everyday life. .

See any corollaries with today's voters and the 24 hour news cycle? The weight of the entire universe is pressing against our backs (ok, so THIS is hyperbolic) and we are addressing micro statements, and not the macro "code" inferred by those statements, snuggled neatly between the actual words.

What makes us beautiful (as whatever we choose to label ourselves) - our core tenant is that democracy is the greatest experiment that can be attributed to the human mind. That in theory, this is the truest balance of natural liberty and the necessary surrender of liberties in order to engage in an organized, civil society. We believe (this is my assumption) that we have come to a point where we see humankind is intelligible, rational; and that we make decisions regarding our best interests, meaning the best interest for the group, not our own immediate selfish desires. We have forgotten that structure of belief and have opted to become a cacophony of bickering voices- even within our own huddle of like-minded associates. We all want to quarterback, we all want to call the play. In a illustration of hypocrisy, if one were to be needed, people's evidence #1 - this very comment. What makes us beautiful paper, makes us look confused, disjointed, and childlike in praxis. Is this a true characterization? Not at all, but when we practice democracy, we look less organized than the obediant.

We (as whatever we choose to label ourselves) need to understand our attackers, and the structure of their thought. It is "same-think" or "group-think" in a truely Orwellian manner- regardless of what Ol' drunk Hitch says. This like-mindedness is brought about by fear of future and change, a need for the structure that an Authoritarian brings. I mean they do get the trains running on time- regardless of what may be on those trains. The same people that are driven to genuflect to the God of James Dobson (who is more powerful than you give him credit) will bow to whatever the Republican meme is. These people love the status-quo, even if it is crippling them. There is a sufficient contingent of patriarchal authoritarians (and their subsequent, necessary followers) who abhor debate and logic, and would rather strap themselves to a sinking ship then swim for shore- even if the boat is docked. If polled, more Americans believe in the presence of demons and angels in the form of human bodies, currently engaged in a spiritual war, than believe that homosexuality is a naturally occurring phenomena -actually quite prevalent in the animal kingdom. Explain to me how ANY logic is going to break through that wall of willful ignorance.

But does this matter?

This issue of ignorance of foreign policy and the coming issues of McCain's ties to lobbyists (inc. oil and weapons tech. lobbyists) are going to carry NO weight. This is for the same reasons why I have been leaving these comments- they do not make sexy entertainment. I know this so I do not destroy the rhythm of the show by calling in to discuss boring inane subjects such as this.

ABC, NBC, CBs, FOX, CNN, MSNBC even NPR for that matter, will not pick up on the stories of factual or logical basis. Only sexy "Parade magazine" or "Saturday Evening Post" profiles. I love TMZ, but they certainly aren't going to follow around Jack Abramoff, Doug Feith, or Billy Kristol- not sexy. They will, and have, followed Rev. Jeremiah Wright. So do the small issues matter- only in the negative way, I agree with Lionel- Mr. O shut your f*cking mouth about this one. I add the addendum- until you can figure out how to get on the other side of the 50 yard line to where we are not always playing catch-up.

In short- we need to not address the singular issue, instead we need to question what the supposed "stickling issue" is representative of.
I ended the sentence with a preposition because rules mean nothing to me, but I could not end the comment with one.

-sorry again for the length.

As a homosexual...

I cannot support a candidate that doesn't support me.

Good luck winning the presidency with blacks who forgot the 90s, white guys with small penises and self-loathing women. What a lovely coalition.

I think if he wins the nomination, a lot of gays will stay home. He doesn't inspire us. We can see through him.

My advice for gays in America - move to Europe.

Before You Move...

you can vote for Hillary, except it'll have to be a mail-in ballot.

Dems lose because of fear, fear of leading

They are afraid to take the lead on anything.

If Obama were a true leader, he would lead us on this issue and take it away from the right once and for all.

And what is your advice, Lionel? Don't lead.

Obama advisers, if youre reading this, don't listen to this Lionel-idiot.

Michael- I for one agree

Michael- I for one agree with your meaning, yet not your implementation. I am afraid that if Obama does come out as that leader that we all want him to be, he will be the leader of the land of the lost come January.

I could not agree more that someone needs to stand up and finally enunciate what is right and fair. I fear that this country HATES the idea of fairness.

Just do a google search of "Obama + {your favorite racial epithet}"
Do the same on youtube.

See what America is really thinking behind the security and anonymity of their own computers. I implore you to do this. Actually go and do this. It is FAR worse than you think.

I think you will be HORRIFIED.
So as far as being a true leader- he may very well be- but not while this is a country filled with anti-intellectual bigots and rednecks.

Ironically- I think he might actually have a better chance if he were actually gay but white, than if he were black and merely mentions marriage rights for homosexuals.
Weird hunh?

If this country HATES the idea of fairness...

Obama is screwed.

OK. You've convinced me. We should ask the delegates to vote for Hillary Clinton at the convention.

Great Blog Lionel

You get it...finally, someone who really understands and speaks the truth...and is entertaining to read instead of the same old beat me over the head crap. I am a new listener and I am thoroughly enjoying everything you have to say.

Dems: A party of losers like Lionel

Losers back away from fights because they don't think they will win.

Winners win fights because they are winners. Get it?

Obama! If you want to change the discussion in November away from your lack of patriotism, your freaky pastor and your wife, take a leading position on this very issue. It will win you the election and cement your legacy as a leader dedicated to equality for all Americans.

Take Lionel's advice and you will lose. We will lose because of your own and people-like-Lionel's cowardice.

You are upset because Obama doesn't make this issue

his own? Well that is the problem. It is not HIS issue, it is YOURS. I'm sorry to disappoint you, but this year there are more important issues out there and this will just have to take a back seat. I suggest you do as most voters do and go with a candidate that most approximates your views across the board as long as their stance on your issue is not significantly worse the the opponents.

The GOP would love for Obama to make this his issue. They can only win by making elections about sideshow issues, distracting from things like the war and the economy where they have made such a mess. I wonder if that is really your goal here.

You just don't get it!

I know there are more pressing issues. There are ALWAYS more pressing issues. Why? Because politicians always create more pressing issues to distract us from the promise of our constitution. Equality!!

If not now, when????????

I get it just fine

Do you get that this issue is the sort of thing the republicans (who are ALWAYS FAR WORSE in this) rely on as the only way to continue sending young men to their deaths and raping the treasury in order to further enrich a few thousand billionaires?

Obama didn't create the war or run the economy down the tubes, the repubs did.

If Obama isn't ready for a fight...

maybe he should drop out.

He's ready for a fight

but as I said, this may be YOUR issue, but it isn't his.

Ok, so I'm clear.

Barack Obama is AGAINST equality.

Got it.

I will not vote for him.

He is not against it

He just doesn't feel that particular issue is in the forefront at the moment If you think McCAin is better then support him. Those are the choices. I'd rather be choosing between a hamburger and a steak, but if the choice is between a hamburger and starvation it is no contest.

This issue is coming Barack.

Take Lionel's advice at your peril.

Or maybe you really just want to win the primary, but lose the general like your Democratic predecessor the loser John Kerry who was also not prepared for this obvious and predictable attack that gets used against dems again and again and again...

Maybe, Obama, if you stick your head in the sand, this issue and gays themselves will just go away.

Ooh, real novelty!

Yet another repugly, implementing "Operation Chaos."

Yawn.

You don't have to burn books to destroy a culture. Just get people to stop reading them.
---Ray Bradbury

I call it Operation Win An Election For Once

Are you telling me that Obama's African American supporters will vote McCain if he proposes an equality initiative? His intellectual white college educated males will vote McCain if Obama proposes that all Americans are equal under the law? Women will choose McCain over gay marriage? Is that your arguement?

Or are you admitting that he needs those rural white males no college degree under 50,000 a year to win in November? Well someone better inform his campaign because they sem to think they DON'T need them.

Which is it Obama supporters? Are you homophobic bigots or change agents?

The deeply rooted

supporters don't care about your issue, but national elections are won on 1) the crossover voters. many of them will be less supportive

and 2) turnout. This one is key. the wing nuts are luke warm on McCain but would be energized on this issue. This is why they wanted to run against Hillary, but now that that is over this is what they have left.

You didn't answer any of my questions because you know I'm right

Everyone with a brain does. We see what has happened here.

If Obama loses this November, you better not blame the gays again. It was a sad excuse last time, but the second time around it will be pitiful.

If he doesn't make this an issue

there will be no reason to blame gays. If this is in the forefront, and he should lose, then that would be inevitable.

Even then, it wouldn't be the fault of gays per se. It would be the fault of those pushing this issue, many of them, Repub shills.

Weak on equality means weak on election day

Just ask John Kerry. He supported states rights too. He lost.

The definition of crazy is attempting the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result.

You guys are crazy if you don't see that my strategy is the winning one.

If you think

making an issue out of this is a winning strategy, then I am sure you are a republican.

It will be an issue whether you like it or not

The republicans don't play by Obama's rules. He needs to obtain the upper hand. His current position is weak and his silence is defening.

If they bring it up

his stance on the issue is fairly mainstream. It will not hurt him. YOUR stance is the polarizing one.

So his words are just bullshit. Change and Hope. Just words.

Go ahead and admit it. This issue points out the weakness of your candidate and that is why you don't want him to mention it.

But Lionel has already done that for you and he won't be the last.

It's the media stupid. Obama better come up with something more than copying John Kerry if he wants to win the White House.

You are a one issue voter

I'm sorry that is not his top priority. Or more importantly, not an issue he wants to wrap his campaign around. This is not to say that the issue might not arise during his presidency or that his choices for supreme court won't advance your cause. But there are issues that better highlight the diffferences with McCain that won't energize his base.

Only a republican shill would want to make this an issue in the campaign.

A gay guy with a partner would never have such conviction.

Must be a republican shill.

Do you think that is working for you? Gays matter. I know that you, Obama and Lionel don't think so, but we do.

How many groups do you think Obama can throw under the bus and still win?

Not putting your issue

out in front is not throwing you under the bus. The reverse is true. Pushing him to make this a signature issue would sabotage his campaign. If you think he should make this an issue, you must be A SHILL. Why do you want to improve McCains chances?

Kerry ignored us and look how well he did.

Gore didn't really do much for us either. Maybe if democrats actually led, you all wouldn't be so worried about losing in a year destined for a democrat.

Being president means being a leader.

I don't see Obama as a very strong leader if supporting equality will kill his chances. Makes it seem like all those pretty speeches he gives are just a bunch of bullshit.

Well, I guess I'll just watch AGAIN as the democrats lose an easy win.

Kerry's problems had nothing to do with ignoring gays.

But Obama is not Kerry anyway. He is far quicker to respond to the mudslinging the right wing throws at him. He is far more charismatic. He does far better at attracting the cross over voter.

Most importantly though, taking this issue on is a non-starter. If there is any connection to Kerry in this, it is that this issue was front and center in Ohio. Kerry lost ground there not because he was not in favor of gay marriage, but because he was not against it enough. Even then, the state's electors only went to the repubs because of cheating and fraud.

Do you think Obama should come out against gay marriage?

You seem to think that Kerry's position of state's rights wasn't good enough to win a general election.

Maybe because those are not democratic values, DUH!!!!!!!

Obama doesn't seem to be attracting much cross over voters in

New York, West Virginia, Kentucky, Pennsylvania, Florida or Ohio.

What are you basing that claim on?

Obama attracted

I'm basing it on the fact that he won enough states to have almost a 200 delegate lead over Hillary. Lots of cross voters in NY, Pa and Ohio. Hillary had the DLC machine in NY and Pa and a strong presence in Ohio. Florida didn't count. He will be fine.

He lost all those states you listed!

He'll be fine as long as he stays quiet about equality.

Your candidate is an illusion.

Those were the state you listed

You were talking about crossover votes. I addressed that. I didn't have either the time or the room to list the states he did win. Your candidate is done. That is not an illusion.

What do you mean you don't have time?

You've been on here all day!

Change and Hope

Unless you've missed the memo, he's talking about changing the status quo in DC. He's speaking for change on behalf of ALL Americans, not just the gay ones.

Don't you think the economy, the war, the raping of our treasury are more important issues at this point in time than gay marriage? Look, I'm not belittling your plight - I'm all for allowing gays to marry, however, ensuring that there IS a country left to leave ALL of our kids and grandkids, IMO, is THE top issue. Ensuring that we do not suffer another four years of the Monkey Boy admuddlestration should be priority in every progressives mind.

"Bitch may be the new black but black is the new President, bitch."
Tracy Morgan, SNL

I beg your pardon, but...

Belittling my point is EXACTLY what you are attempting to do.

First of all, it is not MY issue, it is everyone's issue. It's called equal treatment under the law.

Either you think equality is important, for everyone not just gays, or you don't.

It is not a gay issue.

Keep your shorts on, sparky - I wasn't "belittling"

your point but asking a legitimate question.

Now, I don't know if you're for real or not so you'll forgive me if I take your posts with a grain of salt. However, just as you feel the gay issue is an issue for everyone, I feel more people are more inclined to look at our economy, our involvement in an illegal war, and the environment as issues that affect far more people than whether gay people can marry or not.

Yes, equality is important - how you interpreted that I didn't think so is beyond me. But the GOP uses the "gay agenda" as a wedge issue - an issue the GOP sucessfully campaigned on for many years, however, some people have smartened up and see it for exactly what it is ... the religious right interferring with public policy in the form of fear - "fear the gays!" - a lot of people don't see this as the issue the religious right make it out to be - unfortunately for the gay community, more people are more concerned with how they're going to pay the bills and put food on the table than whether or not the gay community can marry. And, the candidates know this and will focus on the issues that affect a majority of Americans, not just the gay ones.

"Bitch may be the new black but black is the new President, bitch."
Tracy Morgan, SNL

Maybe I'm not being entirely clear.

As a gay man and an informed voter, I doubt there is much about this issue that you could tell me that I don't already know.

And your opinion seems to be a combination of now is not the time and your issue doesn't matter to a lot of people.

The issue, sir, is the very foundation of our country. How in the world you have come to the conclusion that equality isn't everyone's issue is quite frankly something I can not follow.

It is the cornerstone of the American econmy(or it should be)
It is the cornerstone of our legal system (or it should be)
It is the cornerstone of our foreign policy(or it should be)

Are you seeing my point yet?

It is all about how you frame the debate and trust me the debate is coming. We can either set the parameters of the debate for once or we can let the republicans run all over us again which is what Lionel seems to be suggesting to Obama.

Who can be against equality in America and still win an election? You seem to think it is Obama. I disagree. He will lose with that strategy. He must do the right thing.

It isn't easy or convenient to do the right thing, ever. But it must be done. If Obama and all of you won't fight for me, I guess I will die an unequal man. Why do you all call yourselves progressives again? Is it some kind of inside joke or something?

See My video response here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qvuzKxXGPY8&watch_response

You would be correct ...

With people hanging on to their homes by a thread; with people wondering if they should put gas in the car or milk on the table; with people wondering if their loved one will be stop/loss in Iraq, again, now is not the time to bring in the divisive issue of gay marriage. I'm sorry, but I'm being a realist ... and the rality is that gay marriage is just not a priority for many Americans. And, if Obama were to bring it to the spotlight, I can guarantee that every religious-right whack job will come crawling out from beneath the pond scum where they live and will ESCORT Mad Cow McSame to the Oval Office. Would it not make more sense to elect someone you have a better chance of getting somewhere with than someone who would rather put a bullet between your eyes because they believe your lifestyle is a CHOICE?

How long did it take for women to considered equal to men?
How long did it take for African-Americans to even be considered HUMAN?

Look, you have every right to be angry, however, gay marriage is just not a priority for a majority of Americans at this point in time.

"Bitch may be the new black but black is the new President, bitch."
Tracy Morgan, SNL

So how many more of us must be attacked and killed before we

merit equal treatment? How many more centuries of waiting? can you give me a number?

I suggset you read some of MLK teachings. He will show you the way if you are open. You clearly are not open now.

And you don't get the math yet. Obama clearly needs us gays to win but he ain't gonna get us this way.

I don't know.

I do know that you play the victim very well. Look, being a woman in possession of a VERY jewish last name, I'd like to know when I'm going to be given equal treatment, too. Just because there are laws in place, doesn't mean I still don't get discriminated against.

I really wouldn't go throwing around what YOU perceive one to be ("You clearly are not open now.") as well as telling one what they do and do not get. I could very well say that you have no interest in society except GAY society, you have no interest in our country's issues, just those issues that affect the GAY community, but since I'm not a CLOSED-MINDED person, I won't and I wouldn't.

Women weren't allowed to vote until the MAJORITY of women made their voices heard - it didn't happen overnight;
Civil Rights legislation wasn't passed until the MAJORITY of Americans made their voices heard - it didn't happen overnight.

So, you would rather cut your nose off to spite your face? You would rather that Mad Cow McSame wins the election, a person who would shove the gay community further into the closet, than vote for someone who closely resembles your line of thinking? Seems pretty petulent and childish but I am certainly in no position to tell you how to vote.

The reality in today's America is that with our economy and our international standing in tatters and a war without end, gay marriage is the furthest thing from people's minds. I don't know how else to explain to you that gay marriage is not a priority issue.

"Bitch may be the new black but black is the new President, bitch."
Tracy Morgan, SNL

I wish you would stop trying to explain why gay marriage

is not a priority issue for YOU because that misses the point ENTIRELY.

The issue is equality under the law. I'm sorry if you feel discriminated against because of your gender and religion, but there are laws to protect you. If you are not interested in using the tools at your disposal to fight sexism and discrimination, frankly that is soley up to you to change. The avenues are there for you explore to get justice.

You seem to want to deny me even the chance to fight using the tools that you OBVIOUSLY take for granted. Why is that? And don't tell me it is about timing. It sounds like you are just anti-gay. Maybe it took Obama's own hypocrisy for you to finally see it in yourself.

I hope this lesson informs you for the future.

Peace.

Jesus H. Christ.

Gay or not, you are one dense motherfucker.

In CT - the FIRST state in the nation - to GIVE GAY COUPLES the EXACT SAME RIGHTS as heterosexual couples, EXCEPT FOR GAY MARRIAGE. And, since I'm a proud CT resident who FULLY SUPPORTS gay rights, you would be ... WRONG in your assessment of me. You sound anti-straight. You don't see your own hypocrisy against straight people. So there. Did I bring it down to your level sufficiently? Are you done ASS-uming? Where have I stated that I WANT to deny you rights? Project much?

Do you - and by extension, the gay community - not have the same access to the same laws as everyone else?
Can you not seek redress under equal opportunity laws?
Can you not seek redress under employment laws?
Can you not seek redress under hate crimes laws?
Or are you saying that we should have TWO sets of laws, one for gays and one for straights? I'm hoping that's not the case because that's REALLY ... retarded.

NEVER ASS-ume, Mr. Man - you end up making an ass out of yourself.

"Bitch may be the new black but black is the new President, bitch."
Tracy Morgan, SNL

Since we're discussing a NATIONAL election...

do you speak of national laws?

If so, the short answer to all your questions is: NO! THAT'S THE WHOLE POINT!!!!

wow. How dense are you?

Not nearly as dense as you are, heterophobe.

Now, that wasn't very nice of me, was it? So how does it feel for someone to make INCORRECT assumptions about you? Sucks, don't it?

Well, I'll make a suggestion for you ... WHINE TO YOUR ELECTED REPRESENTATIVE AND SENATOR. THEY make the laws, RIGHT?

"Bitch may be the new black but black is the new President, bitch."
Tracy Morgan, SNL

Maybe instead of speaking about issues you are not really

versed in, you should just observe and be open.

Gays do not have equal protection under the law. That is a fact. Ask anyone else if you don't believe me, but if you don't believe me, that's kinda sad.

Some states have passed laws to protect gays, but it doesn't apply nationally. Another state can take away your rights the minute you cross the border. That is what the Loving v VA SC decision was all about.

I would love to educate you, but you seem to have your mind all made up.

Whatever. I suggest YOU educate yourself

in NEVER ASS-uming. Didn't your mama ever teach you about that? See, it's when you ASSume you know something, it's when you ASS-ume you know someone. And, seeing as all you've done is make ASS-umptions about me, you have succeeded in nothing more than making an ASS out of yourself.

I would love to educate you as well in NATIONAL law, but it's painfully obvious that you have made up your mind ... congrats, you are a heterophobe.

"Bitch may be the new black but black is the new President, bitch."
Tracy Morgan, SNL

When did the discussion devolve?

I'm sorry if I offended you but i wasn't assuming you were homophobic, i was inferring it from your vitriol.

There is a difference between assuming and inferring.

My vitriol? LOL

That's funny. ASSume, infer ... you still took it as I was a homophobe. And if this is how you treat someone who is on the same side of the fence as you are ...

"Bitch may be the new black but black is the new President, bitch."
Tracy Morgan, SNL

By Michael BuchananMay 20, 2008 - 4:42pm

do you speak of national laws?

All those categories she mentioned are FEDERAL laws.

Enough time's been wasted on you. Go ahead & elect McCain. I'm sure that he's the answer to all the problems the gay community faces. If you're the best spokesman they can muster, I'm afraid that we won't see legalized gay marriage in my lifetime.

Support the Troops
End the Occupation

Now you're just willfully putting out disinformation.

Anyone can use google to prove that your wrong.

Are you in such deep denial you have to flat out lie?

I'm at a loss with you 'progressives.'

Here's a quick history lesson:

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0761909.html

*and note the president has promised to veto the house employment bill and the senate hasn't even put it on the schedule.

Still want to tell me gays have FEDERAL protection under the law?

Didn't think so.

Again, since CONGRESS puts forth legislation

on the NATIONAL level, and you seem to be ignorant of NATIONAL law, BITCH and WHINE to your ELECTED REPRESENTATIVE and SENATOR.

Jesus, Mary, Joseph - I can get through to a fucking BRICK WALL quicker than getting through to you ... you just SUCKED the life blood out of me - EXHAUSTING - I'm outta here ... I need some sleep.

"Bitch may be the new black but black is the new President, bitch."
Tracy Morgan, SNL

If you could just turn it down a notch.

The topic is Obama's lack of leadership on this issue. Obama is running for president of you and me. If president, Obama will decide to sign laws or to veto( meaning not sign) them.

That is why we are having a debate about whether or not he should take it on as an issue. I say yes, because it is right.

You say no because he will lose the election and it will all be my fault.

Have I got this right so far?

I'm trying to convince you that even if Obama is middle of the road, mainstream on this issue, the republicans will portray him as a left-wing fanatic who wants to let gays marry. How will he combat that? The same way Kerry did. He will say he is for states rights. The republicans will talk about god and church while Obama desperately tries to change the subject. The base gets riled. They come out in droves and vote for values and you lose AGAIN!!!

Man, I see it like it is the writing on the wall. Can't you all?

Now, to avoid said scenario, Obama surprises us all and makes it a fight. And you know what? All of the MILLIONS of new registered democrats who admire him and his message of hope and change, go to the polls and soundly defeat the politics of division like Obama has been promising all along.

Now. tell me where I went wrong.

OR

Are you all saying, however subtly, that if Obama were to come out strongly for equality, you will not vote for him?

Hmmmm?

There is a difference between lack of leadership

and not opening a can of worms in a campaign. It is not an issue now and it will not be one in the campaign. Most of the real progress on the issue has come in the form of court rulings. I suggest you make sure a Dem is elected so that justices and judges are appointed who will be more likely to be open to your line of reasoning. But if you think raising this issue in the campaign IMPROVES his chances of election, you are out of your mind.

So what you're saying is...

If he brings it up, it's political suicide.

If the republicans bring it up, he's golden with his states rights position.

Hmmm. Seems like that's what Kerry thought. Didn't work out that way for him.

Do you honestly believe that if we all just pretend like it doesn't exsist, the republicans won't bring it up in October?

By Michael BuchananMay 20, 2008 - 6:05pm

Please do me a favor, please continue ASSuming because I'm really enjoying watching you make an ass out of yourself. I like how you ASSume I'm not for gay rights; you ASSume that if Obama were to come out strongly for gay rights, that I won't vote for him. If you were any farther out there, because of your INCORRECT ASSumptions, you'd fall off this fine earth of ours.

You are one angry young (?) man and appear to take your anger issues out on anyone who engages you, regardless if friend or foe. In my humble opinion, you are doing the gay movement no favors.

Good luck fighting the good fight - even if you're going about it a bass-ackward way ...

"Bitch may be the new black but black is the new President, bitch."
Tracy Morgan, SNL

being attacked and killed

has nothing to do with gay marriage. If you want to talk about the need for hate crimes legislation when that thread comes around again, be my guest. Frankly I could use you when the repubs show up on that one.

Excuse me but it absoluely does have to do with marriage!

If I'm attacked and in a coma or brain dead, if I don't happen to be in a gay friendly state at the time, my rights are not protected under Obama's policy and that is a fact. My partner would not be allowed to visit me in the hospital. He wouldn't be able to make medical decisions for me so don't tell me it has nothing to do with marriage.

My point was that everyone, and I mean all you good liberal people posting here, are telling me and people like me to wait for protection under the law until some undetermined time in the futre. More people will fall victim while we wait for protection. And by the time you liberals finally decide to fight for the litttle guy for once, it might be too late for me and my partner, Xavier.

And since I travel a lot, the issue of national recognition of my relationship is especially crucial to me.

Maybe you people here don't think I am sincere, but believe me I am being as serious as a heart attack.

Watch my video response to Lionel and decide for yourself if I am genuine or not.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qvuzKxXGPY8