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Today's TRMS

By Vanessa Silverton-Peel

We are still in St. Paul at the Republican National Convention. Things are picking up today-- there are actual people walking around! Yes, so darn exciting. Our big celebrity sighting today? Jon Voight.

On today's show Rachel will be talking to Libertarian presidential candidate and former Republican congressman Bob Barr! Rachel is so jealous that he's been to the Ron Paul convention. Maybe he'll sneak us in? Fingers crossed.

And then Rachel welcomes Minneapolis Mayor R.T. Rybak back to the show.

Comments

(642)

Vanessa, is RftWH back on

Vanessa, is RftWH back on today? Are we getting Rachel at 6 or at 7?

By Jason M. BryantSeptember 2, 2008 - 4:20pm

Oh well. Hopefully Rachel

Oh well. Hopefully Rachel will be the one to interview Barr before she has to leave at 8pm.

By Jason M. BryantSeptember 2, 2008 - 5:15pm

As You Know By Now, Jason, She Did

However briefly, sadly. :( I would have loved to hear him and Ron Paul talking w/Rachel for a good long time.

I'm not a big Barr fan, myself - even if I DID used to belong to the Libertarian Party, Barr doesn't seem quite pro-individual rights enough for my taste. But that's me - your mileage may vary.... :D

By drdarkenySeptember 6, 2008 - 7:53pm

Barr

Former Sen Barr testified before the Senate in apposing to the patriot act which he claimed that the Constitution was being violated. He was a Republican Senator but is very liberal minded when it comes to individual rights

By rusty_scupperSeptember 7, 2008 - 8:41am

I wonder where Barr thinks this is so

I don't remember hearing anything that suggested he's pro-individual liberties when the PATRIOT Act vote was being discussed - more than he didn't agree w/the Separation of Powers aspect....

Do you have a link to his speech you're alluding to, perchance?

By drdarkenySeptember 7, 2008 - 11:45am

small correction

Barr was a congressman, not a senator.

By Passing ShotSeptember 7, 2008 - 5:59pm

"Dancing Host" ?

Will we see the return of the MSNBC Chair Dancers this week?

... and any truth to the rumour that Our Ms. Maddow will be the next new member of NBC's Football Night in America team?

Speaking of which, it's funny how the NFL and NBC picked Thursday night to start the season and they picked the New York Giants and Washington to be the teams. Just the sort of lead-in the the GOP crew want for McCain's speech.

By JTGullsSeptember 3, 2008 - 11:23am

Bears Against Bush Condemns Palin's Anti-Bear Policies

Bears Against Bush Condemns Palin's Anti-Bear Policies:

1) Sarah Palin believes global warming is a farce and is opposed to listing the polar bear as an endangered species.

2) She supports drilling in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge and anywhere else big oil wants.

3) She supports Pebble Mine, which will destroy the richest salmon run in the world.

4) She supports aerial shooting of bears and wolves even though Alaskans voted twice to ban the practice.

5) She used $400,000 of state money to fund a media campaign in support of aerial shooting of wolves and bears.

By RonNLCSeptember 2, 2008 - 4:43pm

Jo(h)n Voight

I know I've posted this before, but I can't help myself. Any mention of Jon Voight automatically makes me think of the Jo(h)n Voight car:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mom_&_Pop_Store

By chemgirlSeptember 2, 2008 - 4:43pm

My new least favorite word

Since this seems to be most direct pipeline into Rachel's brain I was hoping to raise an issue with the pass we all seem to give McCain on the whole "maverick" moniker he so loves. It has almost become the media’s go to explanation for the man’s rash, erratic behavior: like his most recent break from reality Palin as VP pick. I would love to see this become a theme of Rachel’s radio show, t.v. show, Countdown, mainstream media outlets you name it. Call it the campaign to turn “maverick” into a four letter word. It’s a tactic the Republicans have mastered: attaching negative connotations to words previously adopted for positive message reinforcement (liberal comes to mind). If we can hit on all of the negative connotations of having yet another maverick cowboy in the White House who shoots from the hip first and asks questions later (if at all) we could do some real damage to the GOP’s message discipline. Harp on the negative connotations so hard and so frequently that the American public laughs when they hear the word and conservative commentators twitch and convulse when the word almost escapes from their lips. Just a thought……..

By RVScottsmanSeptember 2, 2008 - 5:02pm

I so agree with you RVScottsman!

I just noticed your post here--yes, the way we use language is profound and far reaching--the links (positive or negative) quickly form in the mind and are hard to reverse.

Thankfully, Rachel and friends are on top of it and will likely do what they can to expose this sort of dynamic that happens so readily.

The million dollar question is:
What is the best way to confront the distortion attached to these terms in a way that folks really get it? In a way they are willing to admit maybe they were mistaken?

Do we confront it ?

Do we ignore it? (I think not).

Do we make up new terms of our own?

I think it best to confront it AND also turn it around...

I say appeal to to the American public with strong, solid facts and humor (as Rachel so gracefully does) -- because I still have faith that a truly informed public -- who does not feel made wrong or 'less than' by changing their mind -- (and I dare say this part is critical) -- ultimately chooses the right thing.

By skeptical2September 2, 2008 - 7:15pm

Agreed

I am sickened by the casual tossing around of the word "maverick" as if it answers everything. Talk about overuse.

I almost puke when I hear it now. The "original" maverick feh. Wasn't that Samuel Maverick? Or is McCain older than him (yeah cheap shot I know)?

By the_captainSeptember 3, 2008 - 12:36am

Unbelievable!

I cannot believe W just told the world on national TV that America will continue the policy of First Strike, unprovoked (read illegal) warfare. He explicitly and shamelessly said John McCain will "stay on the offensive, not wait to be hit" and "strike first." So this is the brilliance of the Republican party. They can now say and do ANYTHING they want and openly promise future unjust wars with total impunity. At this point it is not even newsworthy when a Republican glorifies the morally unpalettable on national TV. I saw no one cover that in mainstream news last night.

By the way, for Rachel and anyone else in my hometown, according to trusted sources, Leaning Tower of Pizza is offering discounts for Democrats and full price for Republicans. So go down there and get some grub and enjoy the Land of Sky Tinted Water (Minnesota).

Peace.

By RedGlareSeptember 3, 2008 - 8:16am

Maverick means character?

Last night Fred tried to equate maverick with character but it just doesn't gel. McCain's resume is filled with examples of poor character, his disregard for his education opportunities, his disregard for his first marriage, his demeaning comments to a republican crowd about a president's daughter too heinous to mention and on and on.

McCain basically threw away his opportunity for a first class education at the naval academy, he proudly boasts that his only regret is that he didn't screw up a little more and become the anchorman of his class. Are we supposed to pat him on the back for this? Fred did. He was a "troublemaker" , is this macho maverick behavior something to be proud of and an example to send to the youth of America regarding education?
McCain doesn't take education seriously, he considers education "elitist". Isn't it a shame that in America, you are being fed the message that this behavior should be lauded? McCain's story should a message of regret about his past behavior. I found very little to be laudable in Fred's presentation except McCain's grit as a POW but as Fred said being a POW doesn't qualify you to be president.

By concernedvoterSeptember 3, 2008 - 9:47am

I second that

Also, one could make the point that experience is not all it is cracked up to be. Bush had experience; we know where that got us.

By myptofvuSeptember 3, 2008 - 5:20pm

Maverick

I agree RVScottsman - McCain uses the word "maverick" as if it makes him some stand alone wonderboy but according to Websters it also means an unbranded motherless calf. The republicans are using every comment made about Palin into an opportunity to compare her with Obama. This is starting to make Obama look like he is running for Vice President. Rachel you are doing the best job on MSNBC to keep bringing the focus back to this erratic choice of Palin by McCain. Just FYI - Palin makes a big deal out of quartering and gutting a moose in the field. It is not uncommon for a woman to quarter and gut a moose in the field since the moose weighs way more than a thousand pounds, there is no other way to get it home. This plays as quaint for people from cities but it is something many women can do, however, this is not a skill that should get you a spot on the repub ticket. e

By eschadtSeptember 3, 2008 - 7:10pm

Maverick

seems there' not a whole lot of difference between maverick and bastard....oooppps did I say that out loud?

By rusty_scupperSeptember 4, 2008 - 8:51am

Fine Line!

Ohhhhh Rusty!

Very astute point indeed.

Just to turn our attention from the current ticket for a minute, here's a link to some thoughts about Dubya's Museum:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/9/4/72226/99019/670/585140

By JTGullsSeptember 4, 2008 - 12:05pm

one way to look at maverick is

a brandedless motherless calf according to Webster's
e

By eschadtSeptember 5, 2008 - 9:26am

masquerade by the Non- Mav and Hatriots

I agree---and liberal comes from the root word for freedom and liberty, thank you very much. ha ha. I watched/listened to McCain speech while sitting on the floor playing solitaire. OMG how boring and rambling his speech was, I could hardly stand being exposed to it, but it was my duty..... then it turned into his constant POW story that gets crammed down our throats over and over until it looses it's effect/worth/'persuasive magic' on me. I felt pity for the poor old guy who wants the Prez job, which will do him in from the stress and leave us with 'the mean girl' lording over us....but I will not vote for a pitiful man. Besides, you could feel his lack of energy his utter exhaustion in his effort to top his Dad and Granddad. He still lives in his head in his POW days and feels we owe him the presidency. Anyway, isn't maverick a nice way to say a 'f-----up' or a 'screw-up' to be nicer?
McCain's new name from me is ' Non- Mav ', because his carelessness is not maverick, just attention getting knucke-head antics (like his various school days ) His supporters, who were worked themselves up into a hate filled frenzy at their convention are now ' hatriots '.

By lilylilySeptember 5, 2008 - 11:54pm

Love the "hatriots" word!

Keep using it!

I was disgusted by the frequent chants of "USA" during the RNC. Not becuase of the words, but becuase of how it is intended as a hateful club over the heads of anyone who disagrees with them. It is chanted with a scowl on the face and a furrowed brow. Those people frightened me.

By biorhythmatistSeptember 6, 2008 - 9:35am

According to a live blog

According to a live blog from a Seattle reporter, a lot of the "U.S.A.!" chanting was to cover up protesters.

By Buxtehude_BarbarossaSeptember 6, 2008 - 11:41am

Hatriots On the March!

Glad you like it.
Yeah, I felt the awful hatred displayed come through the tv and the ether ( the gathering of the hatred in one spot is strong ) at me and I felt bad. I had to take a shower to wash the ugliness off.
Big contrast to the Obama/Biden love-in. ( that gathering by contrast felt good and uplifting and folks were hugging and smiling and loving each other.......not hard to choose when looked at from the point of view of how the body feels the energies from the two groups.)

I do hope the rest of the world does not see us as a gathering of american bullies from the Repub convention..............So, Hatriots it is when they are showing the rage just under the surface.

By lilylilySeptember 7, 2008 - 6:10pm

GET OVER IT !!!!!!!!

U.S.A. , U.S.A. , U.S.A. , U.S.A. , U.S.A. ,U.S.A., U.S.A. , U.S.A. , DID I FORGET TO SAY U.S.A. !!!!!!!!!!!!!

By FORMERLY ANTI OBAMASeptember 9, 2008 - 3:27pm

Sarah Palin

I know this is probably "off topic" but I am creeped out by the Republicans. I went looking for an "anti-Palin" bumpersticker because I just cannot tolerate the woman and the hypocrisy she stands for. Unfortunately, on a site which is supposed to be neutral (supplying a vast array of merchandise for people of any political persuasion), I had difficulty finding anything anti-Palin. What I DID find, a LOT of, was "pro-Palin" merchandise, but the nature of it appalled me. It was mostly geared to how "hot" she was (e.g., "MILF" , "VPILF" t-shirts, etc.) or celebrating her as a gun-totin' redneck, kick-ass mama...YUCK! Can't they even respect their own VP candidate? Did they (or McCain) simply choose her as a Republican sex symbol? From what I saw, there must be a lot of that out there, and it worries me. After the past 8 years I have lost faith in the intelligence of the American electorate.

By gryzeldaSeptember 7, 2008 - 9:22pm

Gryzelda

Were you outraged by the very famous Obama girl and the Obama song? What about all of the swooning over him? I like her politics and attitude, and I think she's hot - what is so wrong with that?

By Half RepublicanSeptember 7, 2008 - 10:32pm

Regarding the lack of anti-Palin merchandise

I think i can help. Please feel free to send this around, share with friends, put on t shirts or sprinkle on your next mooseburger. I created it a little while ago using my dashboard bobblehead moose, a hamburger bun and photoshop. So easy. So delicious. Enjoy.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/9921150@N05/2839229232/

By franland13September 8, 2008 - 1:17am

palin word game

How do you like these?:

Stalin = Palin
Want failin', that's Palin.

If you like Stalin you'll' like Palin.
(do enough voters know about Stalin? or do only the so-called 'elite' know?)
I know these are too easy.

Or here is a page from the creepy big bully book ( it's not very nice )
Big scared babies hide behind McCain/Palin who don't give a flip about you.

Tired and Empty Celebrities= McCain Palin

McPain and Failin'

Uuughh. That was icky...time for a shower and pajamas.

By lilylilySeptember 8, 2008 - 10:47pm

Repubs and their words

They're already doing it with "community organizer". They've completely subverted the meaning. They spent the beginning of the convention all about service b/c of the approaching hurricane and then they decide being a community organizer is the worst thing you could be. I can't wait til Rachel points out their tactics - over and over and over and over . . .

One other thing: they're doing it with the word "opponent" too.

By slc1950September 8, 2008 - 4:30pm

RFTWH

oy.

I can't wait until it's over.

-----------------
Cue Imperial Death March!
Impeach Bush!

By HoneyBearKellySeptember 2, 2008 - 5:05pm

Davis must have heard Caroline Kennedy last week

When Wolf Blitzer asked about the vetting process she refused to tell him and said it was a "confidential process."

Bet he's glad Caroline had a good answer!

By ShelaghCSeptember 2, 2008 - 5:09pm

Knowing John McCain

"Americans have known John McCain a long time and know who he is..."

Uh, no, we know who he used to be.

By chemgirlSeptember 2, 2008 - 5:11pm

The McCain Shield...

Hey Rachel, if you see this, could you ask one of your MSNBC associates, to ask the McCain Campaign, WHY are they shielding her?
If she's such a great, experienced VP Candidate, then what are they hiding?

Of course, we all know what's going on, but isn't it time for the Media to ask that question? There certainly are enough McCain spokepeople being interviewed, to ask that question.
It's frightening to me, that tomorrow she'll be able to say anything, without EVER being asked a question, before or after. So, at least, put them on the spot.

Keep up the great work, Rachel... and good luck next week!

By bazSeptember 2, 2008 - 5:35pm

Pailin? Where is she?

Palin's being hidden IS a story that more folks should be covering.

Just saw this about how Sarah's even being hidden from her friends.

http://dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/9/2/164115/4260/125/583651

I assume she is being hidden not only to avoid questions about the various scandals, but also to give her some quick media training on 1) what McCain's platform is, and 2) how to obfuscate like a pro.

If Palin doesn't have a "heart-to-heart" style interview with some network news anchor by the end of this week, I'll bet money that she is forced off the ticket. Lack of such an interview means the Rs don't think they can defend her. Doing such an interview means there is still hope. And despite all the talk of sexism on our side (SOME of which is justified) the Rs have to promote her a sympathetic mom figure, and quick, to save her candidacy.

By leopardgrrl1September 2, 2008 - 6:03pm

I thought the GOP didn't

I thought the GOP didn't want to have a candidate who would need "on the job training?"

By cproffitSeptember 4, 2008 - 9:40am

Tea with Hillary

I would love to see a televised civil conversation between Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton and Palin. They could discuss Palin's commitment to women's rights and equality. Hillary might give her a pop quiz or two about domestic or world issues.
I guess what I would really like to see is Palin's cowardly refusal. Hillary could have the tea anyway, opposite an empty chair and address those very issues, and question Palin's commitment to them.

By NicoloMSeptember 5, 2008 - 10:41am

Why is a 'Maverick' suddenly such a glamorous, appealing thing?

It's really time --Go Rachel--for a serious discussion as to what this 'maverick' business really and truly means, as it seems folks are really exploiting this loaded term.

More expressions/ concepts that are so disgustingly over-used and distorted re: what they mean in terms of choosing our next Commander in Chief:

"Out of the box"
"The real deal"
"Puts Country First"
"A True Leader"
"Will certainly keep us Safe"
"A Real Feminist" (Pat Buchanan defines Palin as a feminist)

By skeptical2September 2, 2008 - 6:04pm

If McCain's such a goddam "maverick"...

If McCain's such a goddam "maverick"... why didn't his preferred pick of Joe-mentum Lie-berman for VP stand?

By RonNLCSeptember 2, 2008 - 6:12pm

Because Lieberman wasn't a risk,

Because Lieberman wasn't a risk, he was guaranteed failure. I think picking Palin was a bad move, but it has better odds than Lieberman would have.

By Jason M. BryantSeptember 3, 2008 - 9:39am

Totally with you

on this. This has been my big question all day. I wish that someone would ask this question. If he is truly a maverick then why didn't he go against his party and pick the guy he wanted to run with. Instead, he went with the establishment and picked this unknown, unvetted person.

And...if he gets on stage and looks at or is perceived to be looking at her butt...is anyone going to say anything about that? Maybe it is camera angles but it looks creepy from my television.

By nmcruz1976September 2, 2008 - 11:33pm

Simple answer

Because he isn't going to pick a pro choice running mate. End of story.

By Half RepublicanSeptember 3, 2008 - 3:34am

It's Part of Our "Cowboy Culture"

Where we pay lip service to admiring the Mysterious Stranger, the Lone Wolf, the Man With a Secret Past Who Cleans Up a Corrupt Town - never mind that what we really do, as Amy Goodman and Friends discovered, is raid their houses, pepper-spray them for voicing the slightest dissent, and toss them in jail! Or, to be fair to McCain, slime them up one wall and down the next - until they Get With the Program and hire the slimers to manage their campaigns....

It's ironic - the people who sing the praises of "maverickdom" are the very ones who bought The Recipe (school to job to marriage to kids) lock, stock and bubblebath. Those of us who actually live, or lived, The Maverick Lifestyle know full well all the compromises we had to make, the things like healthcare and a good credit rating we had to do without, the disapproval of all around us (including family and friends) because We Just Wouldn't Grow Up.

Truth is - if McCain was really a maverick, he'd have never gotten elected, ever. It's always been a pose with him....

By drdarkenySeptember 5, 2008 - 12:09pm

Hey, drdarkeny

Sara Paretsky wrote an excellent essay on this titled "The iPod and Sam Spade". It's in her book "Writing in an Age of Silence".

By JHUCSeptember 5, 2008 - 5:56pm

Ooo!

Thank you for the tip, JHUC. I've just ordered that from the Seattle Public Library.

By Buxtehude_BarbarossaSeptember 5, 2008 - 7:55pm

Hey, B_B

I'd love to hear how you like the book. I found it fascinating.
By the way, I put "The Prosecution of G.W. Bush" on hold at the Campbell Library, per your recommendation, and discovered that there are about 25 people ahead of me!?! I'm so glad that I live among so many progressive, information-seeking people. However, Amazon.com, here I come.
It was awesome to hear Joe Biden and Barak Obama talk about AMTRAK! The Democratic Party now has a train ticket. (Sorry, couldn't resist.)

By JHUCSeptember 6, 2008 - 3:53am

Thanks again

Thanks again for letting me know about the Paretsky essays! I enjoyed them, and learning more about her and how she thinks. She reminds me a bit of my stepmother, one of the hardest working women I've ever met.

I especially enjoyed the last essay, "Truth, Lies and Duct Tape."

My library copy was a winner, so I bought a copy today from Seattle's Mystery Bookshop, whose founder has letters exchanged with Rex Stout. He said Sara Paretsky stopped by last month when she was on vacation in Seattle. He said she was very nice.

By Buxtehude_BarbarossaSeptember 6, 2008 - 8:36pm

Thanks, JHUC :)

I'll see if I can't find that essay. :)

By drdarkenySeptember 6, 2008 - 9:49pm

SF Bay Rachel Watching Party

Hi All,

I was wondering how many are planning to take public transit to join us at the Rachel Watching Party.

The reason I'm asking is because I am having an inordinate time finding a place that will show something OTHER than football that night. I walked up and down downtown Palo Alto today, and football came first. :(

I am still working on a place in Palo Alto.... I need to confirm that it would be OK to have MSNBC on rather than the game..... but I would like to know about people's flexibility in case this place doesn't work out.

By cool_princessieSeptember 2, 2008 - 6:05pm

SF viewing party

Public transit for me. Meeting some place within walking distance (1.5 miles) of a CalTrain station would be awesome, however I can get pretty much anywhere if I take a bus also. Here's the CalTrain map. http://www.caltrain.com/caltrain_map.html

Thanks again, Cool_Princessie!

By JHUCSeptember 2, 2008 - 7:51pm

Thank you JHUC

As I said, there is a place in downtown Palo Alto, but I want to double check for sure that they'll let us change the channel. After I got home I realized that the guy I talked to may be unaware of the football game.

The fall back place would be in downtown Sunnyvale, about a block from the train station. But since PA has more trains I'll try that one first. ;)

And BTW, I am a fan of the train too, so I am very familiar with it. :)

By cool_princessieSeptember 2, 2008 - 8:17pm

If I may butt in...

former Bay area resident here.

Applewood Pizza in Menlo Park is just across from CalTrain. I assume they have TV. They used to have a very fine German beer selection.

By leopardgrrl1September 2, 2008 - 8:34pm

AWESOME pizza! GREAT beer! NO tv

At least not that I remember.... but I haven't been there in a looooong time.

By cool_princessieSeptember 2, 2008 - 9:27pm

SF Bay party location

Hey All,

We are meeting in downtown Palo Alto. Yeahhhhh!!!!

The place is Abbey's, which used to be Taxi's. The address is 403 University Ave, and the phone number is 650-322-8294. It is a burger joint, and it also serves veggie burgers in case any vegetarians come. There is only one TV set, and I'll be by it.

I told the guy that we'll be 10-15 people, so please do come! I think that our control over the TV will be largely dependent on how many of us are there. :)

The Palo Alto cable system transmits concurrently with the East Coast. Therefore, the show starts at 6 PM. I plan to be there around 5:45-ish.

Looking forward to meeting some of you, and to see whether or not the internet rumors are right... they are saying the MSNBC is trying to femme out Rachel... take a look at this montage... eeek!

By cool_princessieSeptember 3, 2008 - 11:15pm

See you there, everyone!

Thanks for setting this up, cool_princessie. But the photo will give me nightmares.

By JHUCSeptember 3, 2008 - 11:39pm

GAAAHHH!!!

I will try to make as well - a busy day for me, but I think I can sneak away...

By domitypeSeptember 4, 2008 - 12:03am

WOW, thanks!

GREAT WORK cool_p!

I will be there, but how do we know where you are and who do we ask for and perhaps we should know a bit about what you look like? Clothing! That's it, chemgirl told everyone her outfit and that way it's still OK while posting online.

I can just see it now, I think I see you or someone else from the group and sit down with them. Right away I begin chatting only to be taken as a thief and get my head beaten in with a half eaten chicken leg.

By Polly Tics (not verified)September 4, 2008 - 4:53am

if we are all sitting in front of a screen tuned to MSNBC

we probably can guess...

I will probably have a KFJC t-shirt on.

By domitypeSeptember 4, 2008 - 3:38pm

There's one one TV

So there is no way to miss it. It is located at the opposite end of the venue once you walk in.

By cool_princessieSeptember 4, 2008 - 10:58pm

YIKES!!!!!!!

I'll stick with the real Rachel

By rusty_scupperSeptember 4, 2008 - 8:58am

AAAGGHHHH!!! I'M BLIND!!!!!!

OMFG, CP! Don't ever do that to me again!

I'm sure Rachel has nightmares of looking just like that, too.... :o :o :o

By drdarkenySeptember 5, 2008 - 12:32am

But ain't she puuurrrrdy?

I bet she'll be an even bigger hottie with tall hair... anyone willing to give Rachel a Marge Simpson makeover?? LOL!!!!

By cool_princessieSeptember 5, 2008 - 2:09pm

::whimper:: Make it stop....

What's wrong w/Rachel the way she is, anyway? She looks smart, funny and authoritative....

I've seen Allison Stewart and Amy Robach - MSNBC has enough twinkees on-air already, thank you.... :p

By drdarkenySeptember 6, 2008 - 9:47pm

BLOSSOM

IS THIS BLOSSOM?

By Half RepublicanSeptember 6, 2008 - 1:39pm

Austin Maddow Viewing

Cool_princessie reminds me...

We'll be having a TRMS teevee viewing party in Austin Texas at The Dog & Duck pub. Let me know if you're panning to come. My strategy for football is to arrive early enough to control the back patio TV set. We have a good chance of doing so if some of you can help me hold our spots.

By leopardgrrl1September 2, 2008 - 6:09pm

Seattle Maddow Viewing

I'll be heading to Seattle's one and only lesbian bar, the Wild Rose, where they think they have MSNBC in their cable package and we can switch to that before trivia if no one objects. I'm not very familiar with either cable TV or this bar, but I know these ladies are friendly to everyone, so please join me if you're interested! Maybe we can put together a trivia team for after.

By Buxtehude_BarbarossaSeptember 2, 2008 - 7:57pm

Hey Buxteh_B

I'll try to get there. What time is it again? Should I wear my DeanForAmerica shirt so you'll recognize me? or maybe I should make a point of getting some Obama gear before then.

By zoomSeptember 3, 2008 - 11:39am

Excellent! Word is it's at

Excellent! Word is it's at six, so I'll go around five thirty.

Political gear is a good identifier. I don't have any (don't really like "stuff"). Unless I find some kind of cut flower to stick behind my ear: beige cords and black polo shirt, probably.

By Buxtehude_BarbarossaSeptember 3, 2008 - 1:10pm

Wear your VOTE FOR PEDRO tshirts

everyone should wear their Vote for Pedro tshirts..

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=hKiw4Qk9QaI&feature=related

By wildwolfgurlSeptember 4, 2008 - 7:01am

too early for me

hopefully it will end up online somewhere.

By zoomSeptember 8, 2008 - 12:38pm

Experience: Palin vs. Obama, like Salmonella vs. Overeating

What bothers is me is not necessarily the comparison of Obama's and Palin's "executive experience," but rather that John McCain or whomever chose Sarah Palin as the VP doesn't seem to understand that if Barack Obama is elected president, then the voters have decided that his experience - political, executive, life, and otherwise is enough. There has at least been some sort of democratic consensus on his credentials being enough. Sarah Palin, on the other hand, was chosen by one man and (possibly) thrust upon the public a heartbeat away from the presidency. The comparison then is a lot like going out to eat and getting salmonella poisoning and deciding to eat too much. Sure, both MIGHT end up giving you a bellyache, but one is certainly more your fault than another.

By underawanderinstarSeptember 2, 2008 - 6:13pm

choosing experience

I logged on to make exactly this point. I don't think your analogy works all that well, I didn't really understand it, but I totally agree with your rebuttal to the GOP's experience argument. Obama was able to convince Democrats that he is qualified. McCain just deemed Palin qualified, it seems, without asking anything about her. I knew a lot more about Obama when I voted for him then McCain knew about Palin when he plucked her out of Alaska. I trust the process that ended up with Obama a lot more.

By jssmith4September 2, 2008 - 8:44pm

Dems and Obama

Probably most democrats who voted for Obama did so because of his anti-war stance, or because they can't stand the Clintons. Both Hillary and Obama lack executive experience, so it was never an issue - they both are Senators with little or no executive experience. Plus, Palin was voted in as governor.

By Half RepublicanSeptember 3, 2008 - 12:22am

James Carville

made this exact point on Larry King Live the other night. The republican rebut to this is "it's a sexist statement. So now we McCain who no one can question because he was a POW and it is a smear against his legendary service (although he is not the only existing POW)...and we also have Gov. Palin who no one can question because that is sexist...did they mention she is a woman?

Also, Sen Obama compared Gov. Palin's executive experience to running his campaign and alluded to the fact that running his campaign is a bigger operation than she has run in her career...not too factual but awfully funny IMO. I am waiting to see who says that this is sexist and innapropriate.

I think it is especially funny that Gov. Palin always talks about Alaska as if it were another country...maybe like Canada...it is attached to the United States but it is a separate entity. She talks about Alaska as if she is the President in Alaska...it cracks me up.

By nmcruz1976September 3, 2008 - 12:23am

If they're gonna 'Flush', they better look out for Splashback!

By skeptical2September 2, 2008 - 7:05pm

Palin the Successionist: Alaska, not Country, First

Members of 'Fringe' Alaskan Independence Party Say Palin Was a Member in 90s; McCain Camp and Alaska Division of Elections Deny Charge

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/09/members-of-frin.html
September 01, 2008 6:52 PM

The campaign of Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., likes to herald the independence of its new running mate, Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin.

Officials of the Alaskan Independence Party say that Palin was once so independent, she was once a member of their party, which, since the 1970s, has been pushing for a legal vote for Alaskans to decide whether or not residents of the 49th state can secede from the United States.

And while McCain's motto -- as seen in a new TV ad -- is "Country First," the AIP's motto is the exact opposite -- "Alaska First -- Alaska Always."

After refraining from commenting on the charge for a day, the McCain campaign on Tuesday asserted that Palin was never a member of the AIP.

But Lynette Clark, the chairman of the AIP, tells ABC News that Palin and her husband Todd were members in 1994, even attending the 1994 statewide convention in Wasilla. Clark was AIP secretary at the time.

This, it should be noted, does not square with official records.

Gail Fenumiai, director of the Alaska Division of Elections, tells ABC News that regardless of the impression given to members of the Alaskan Independence Party, "Gov. Sarah Palin first registered to vote in the state in May 1982 as a Republican, and she has not changed her party affiliate with the Division of Elections since that time."

Clark, for whatever reason, thought that in 1994 Palin was a kindred spirit.

"We are a state's rights party," says Clark, a self-employed goldminer. The AIP has "a plank that challenges the legality of the Alaskan statehood vote as illegal and in violation of United Nations charter and international law."

She says it's not accurate to describe the party as secessionist -- they just want a vote, she says, adding that the members of the AIP hold different opinions on what Alaska should be.

"My own separate opinion as an individual is that we should be an independent nation," Clark says. Others in the AIP "believe that being a commonwealth would be a good avenue to follow." Some advocate statehood -- but a fuller statehood than exists now.

She doesn't know what Palin's position was.

"It never came up in conversation," Clark recalls. "But when she joined the party, our platform was right under her nose."

Earlier this year, Palin sent a video message to the AIP for its annual convention, where AIP vice chair George Clark told the small crowd that Palin "was an AIP member before she got the job as a mayor of a small town –- that was a non-partisan job. But you get along to go along -– she eventually joined the Republican Party, where she had all kinds of problems with their ethics, and well, I won't go into that. She also had about an 80 percent approval rating, and is pretty well sympathetic to her former membership."

A day after ABC News requested a response from Palin as to whether she was ever a member of the AIP, McCain campain spox Brian Rogers told ABC News that Clark's "allegations are false."

"Governor Palin has been a registered Republican since 1982," Rogers says, providing voter registration documentation showing her to be a Republican. "As you know, if she changed her registration, there would have been some record of it. There isn't.